Curse

Longasc · Jan 25, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

I did not want to derail the GW.dat thread, but an interesting question has arisen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

(full price game and monthly fees) is immensely more profitable than GWs (full price and no monthly fees). GW originally banked on gamers not being willing to pay both full price and then monthly fees, but as WoW has shown gamers have no problem doing that, and personally I think GW2 should switch to that model too.

I think there is some truth to this argument.

I play only 1 MMO at a time, and monthly fees are not threatening or the deciding factor to me. Sure, there will be players who cannot afford that or just like the idea to pay no fee.

But will they make up for one subscription in the short or long run? Guild Wars seems to be running very well, despite no fees. But could they not make MUCH more money with the traditional model?

But how about GW2? It seems to become much more of classic MMO judging from infos released so far.
They will of course try to keep traffic and other running costs low, but they have to create new content, new GW chapters and keep people buying them to keep that up. For the price of one copy of GW.

ANet seems to be running low on time all the time and working hard to release the next chapter in time. In fact I fear the guys are quite stressed most of the time, leading to some glitches and bugs that could easily have been avoided in the end.

GW2 wants to be an even better GW. People want superb content and additions to that, regardless if the game has a fee or not. It is important to the success of the game in general.

Now did you not ever imagine what would happen if ANet would get much more money?

Would they not be able to hire some more people? Would we not be already at the 23rd implemented God Realm? Have artists take their time and remove glitches from many armors? Get new chapters really every half year, and those being massive compared to the rather tiny Factions and EOTN?

I do not advocate a fee, but I can imagine that to keep the standard high ANet just needs some more money than just the money from selling the game.

We already have the online shop ingame.
Can you not imagine that it will be expanded to accept more payment options and sell more merchandise, optional content like the BMP, horse armor, special items? Basically GW becoming more of a micro-payment game?

I am just curious how they want to make sure GW2 is not only great for the gamers but also making enough profits so that the franchise keeps running. I could not really imagine it for GW1, and GW2 seems to be becoming much more MMO-like like GW1. Which could mean more service required and all that. We could of course say, let ANet and NCSoft support work their butt off... and after all, it is not so much our problem. ANet seems to be confident to do it.

What do you think?

MisterB · Jan 25, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

They really can't afford to charge a monthly fee. They would lose many(most?) of their current customers. Furthermore, they have already demonstrated a profitable business model with their current franchise.

Gaile has already said, many times, that GW2 will have no fee.

Meat Axe · Jan 25, 2008, 08:41 AM // 08:41

I, along with many others, would not play GW if it had a monthly fee. I just don't agree with paying to buy a game and then having to pay rent on it. It'd be the same as buying a house and still having to pay to live in there. And I don't like paying for something that may or may not have features added every month.

I think the best option would be to add small features that can be purchasable through the online store (like the BMP. In fact, I think the BMP is just a way to figure out if people are willing to buy small packages of new features through the online store). It's like a fee, but people would feel more comfortable with it, since they can pay for things in their own time, and they would actually get something for their money every time.

Drop of Fear · Jan 25, 2008, 08:44 AM // 08:44

looking at nc.soft papers guild wars franchise is already more then profitable, and would be a commercial suicide to change the business model that brought u to success.
is pretty clear that the majority of guild wars playerbase is unwilling to pay a montly fee but has little to nothing against micropayments as long as it doesnt turn the game in a "hey my credit card is bigger then yours festival".

keep the current model, sell more BMP-Sorrow Furnace like material for little $$ -> increase the earnings of a franchise already cashing a lot.
I truly feel that's the path gw2 is going to take. boxed expansions + mini expansions for 5-10$ from the online store, and i like it

Kaydee · Jan 25, 2008, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Tbh i dont think you have to worry about how they make money, let them handle that. I wouldn't pay a monthly fee to play GW if you want my honest oppinion, eventhough its a great game, it doesnt offer enough for me personally to want to pay for it every month.

StormDragonZ · Jan 25, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

If GW2 had fees beyond the actual price, I wouldn't play it. Knowing it'll be "fee-free" boosts my confidence it'll be good.

Kaydee · Jan 25, 2008, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat Axe

It'd be the same as buying a house and still having to pay to live in there.

You actually have to pay to live in a house you buy, and im not just talking about warm water, eletricity and such, but there is alot more you have to pay. So thats a bad example, allthough i know what you mean.

arcanemacabre · Jan 25, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

The problem with that statement - Wow has shown that players have no problem in paying a monthly fee... for Wow. There have been many pay-to-play MMO's that have sunk; and I mean big time. The reason is because of Wow's immense popularity. Most people who want to pay to play are already doing that with Wow; they aren't going to go to another game when they're all settled in where they're at.

GW doesn't have a big enough playerbase to get away with something like that. They make it pay to play, and most people who don't have a problem with it will likely just go to, or stay with, Wow. Those who do have a problem with it will just find a different game.

Kityn · Jan 25, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Jeff Strain has stated that Anet wanted to make a game that you can put away for a time and then pick it up again without having to make players commit to paying a monthly fee. Anet is not hurting for money. They have a much smaller company than most P2P MMO companies so their overhead is smaller.
Anyways expect expansions for GW2 to fill in. I for one and many others are tired of feeling like we have to log in just to feel we are getting our moneys worth with P2P games.
Personally I will never ever pay to play monthly fees again.

Drop of Fear · Jan 25, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

cmon this is not about GW2 having fees or not as we all know it wont.

Kaydee · Jan 25, 2008, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The problem with that statement - Wow has shown that players have no problem in paying a monthly fee... for Wow. There have been many pay-to-play MMO's that have sunk; and I mean big time. The reason is because of Wow's immense popularity. Most people who want to pay to play are already doing that with Wow; they aren't going to go to another game when they're all settled in where they're at.

GW doesn't have a big enough playerbase to get away with something like that. They make it pay to play, and most people who don't have a problem with it will likely just go to, or stay with, Wow. Those who do have a problem with it will just find a different game.

Wether people like it or not, WoW also have alot more content to offer and stuff to do, then GW have. But if this content is good or bad is another discussion. That is also the reason people dont mind paying for it. Also, not having to pay fee's gives players a natural feeling about playing and not feeling forced to play, since hey, now im paying to play.

Numa Pompilius · Jan 25, 2008, 09:03 AM // 09:03

I've played GW for three years.
I've paid a total of about $150 for all chapters and expansions. About half of that will reach ANet/NCSoft, so they've made approximately $75 off of me as a customer.

If I'd played WoW for three years, I'd have paid a total of $80 for the chapters and expansions, and an additional $540 in fees, for a total of $620.
Out of that, approximately $580 would have reached Blizzard.

In other words, ArenaNet/NCSoft has made 1/8th as much money off of me as they would have had they used the same business model as Blizzard.

The big question is, then, how many users ArenaNet/NCSoft would lose if they switched to a fee-based model with GW2. That many would drop out is undeniable.

It will also be very difficult to take customers from WoW. Some 80-90% of the WoW players have not played any other mmorpg, and many of them are not even cRPG players - Blizzard has, by making the game cute and newbie-friendly, managed to tap in to nearly unexploited markets such as girl gamers and older casual gamers. They're playing largely for the social interaction, and will not move to a new mmorpg regardless of the quality of graphics or content, and are (obviously) not cost-sensitive. Blizzard's got it made, and can simply rake in the cash indefinitely while occasionally giving out minor upgrades/vanity packs, much in the vein of the Sims franchise.

If I had free reins with GW2, I'd not try to compete with WoW on WoW's home turf. I'd niche GW2 exactly the way GW1 was niched originally: as a competitive, less forgiving, higher-end MMO with advanced features, aimed at casual/experienced/older gamers.
I would aim for roughly one million subscribers, and I'd do some very careful marketing research to see if I could reach that goal with a fee-based financial model. If it seemed possible to reach one million subscribers by selling games at full price AND having monthly fees, then hell yes, I'd do so.

arcanemacabre · Jan 25, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I would aim for roughly one million subscribers, and I'd do some very careful marketing research to see if I could reach that goal with a fee-based financial model. If it seemed possible to reach one million subscribers by selling games at full price AND having monthly fees, then hell yes, I'd do so.

And it would be a great risk. Sure, the potential to make much more money is there, but is it really worth the risk, and the harm it would do to their image by breaking trust in their current fans?

I, personally, consider myself a hardcore fan. However, one of the major 'niche' elements that drew me, and many others like me, to GW was that free-to-play aspect. Not because I'm cheap, but because I know the psychological effect a monthly fee has on people, and how it pushes and drives people (like myself) to keep playing and being unable to put it down while attempting to get their money's worth. Simply put - I wouldn't buy it.

Besides, the only games that have monthly fees and are simultaneously popular enough to rake in enough money are full-out grindfests. Wow, Lineage 1&2, Runescape. Those are the top 4. There's no way a 'niche' game in the GW spirit would survive without that kind of classic MMO grind attached to it, which ruins its niche.

MaDDoG1221 · Jan 25, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

If GW2 had a monthly fee they would lose me, I cant afford monthly fee's. Cant get a hold of paypal or a credit card). I love the free to play and I hope they never change it.

distilledwill · Jan 25, 2008, 09:23 AM // 09:23

I have to agree that they would a lose a significant number of customers if they switched to a monthly fee basis. The way GW is works well, and the hype over GW2 is looking up.
I think they will easily exceed their number of current GW customers with GW2, I imagine that they will need to aswell to fund the greater technology costs that it will entail.

Although Im not hideously strapped for cash, i can't really afford that many luxuries, if they introduced a fee then they would probably lose me as a customer.

scrinner · Jan 25, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Numa, Theres Many MANY other factors you have to take into consideration.

1.) Update Schemes. How do they update their game client? How do they distribute content? Gw lets you play without the entire game on your computer as that content gets streamed (Instead of downloading it before hand.)

2.) Servers. Wow= Waiting Times. Does that not rock your world?

3.) Server Distribution and the cost to upkeep those servers.

Theres probably a billion other reasons im forgetting right now.

pamelf · Jan 25, 2008, 09:30 AM // 09:30

To install a monthly fee at this point, even for GW2 will pretty much halve they're clientelle. If not more...

We might have USED to be willing, but now that we have fee free gaming i don't think many of us would be willing to pay monthly for it.

Iuris · Jan 25, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I'm not buying a game where I don't get to keep what I paid for. So, MMOs are almost automatically out. I don't even follow their development.

Estic · Jan 25, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

The problem with that statement - Wow has shown that players have no problem in paying a monthly fee... for Wow.

GW doesn't have a big enough playerbase to get away with something like that. They make it pay to play, and most people who don't have a problem with it will likely just go to, or stay with, Wow. Those who do have a problem with it will just find a different game.

Just wanted to quote this because it's about the same things I would have said.

pumpkin pie · Jan 25, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

they would loose me for sure, will never, ever pay a monthly fee to play an online game simply because I am unable to afford it as I already have many many many many many monthly payment to make, so one more is out of the question and its not even for basic need.

PS: I think it is great what arena net is doing for people who cannot afford a monthly fee on gaming. please do not change it thank you very much.